The Phoenix 8.30.01
Who will be indie rock?s Nirvana? And, will anyone care? by Adam Gnade
"Success had ruined forever, in his eyes, paintings and books which he had formerly held dear. In the face of popular acceptance, he would eventually find imperceptible flaws in these works, and would reject them, wondering if his own taste was not becoming less discriminating." -- Joris-Karl Huysmans, "Against Nature""Moving units and tracking charts/Will they ever learn?" -- Jawbreaker, "Indictment"
Preface: As a rock journalist, sometimes it seems as though my life is a nonstop parade of band kids, record label owners, and various other indie rock insider-types. It can get pretty hectic on some days, and hearing the same Buddyhead-style gossip tale from thirty different people can lead even the most hardened scene-veteran to a full-on breakdown. Not that I ask for it, though. No siree. Fact is, I?m ?bout as close to being a hermit as a twenty-something brat can get. All I want outta life is to write all night and sleep all day -- yet they just keep a-knockin.?
Going along with my daily diet of P.R. hype, CD promos, and tour news, I?m also treated to their (usually unsolicited) views on ... well, everything. Always the vociferous ones, my friends and acquaintances, and (oft times) enemies are all about letting their opinions be heard far and wide ... or, at least, all the way across the bar, as the band they?re dissing plays on stage.
Lately, everyone around me has been talking about indie bands trying to break into the mainstream. Hearing a lotta interesting stuff being voiced, I decided fire up the ol? tape machine, make a few calls, a couple emails, and maybe pull a story out of it all.
Thus, here are some of indie rock?s most knowledgeable players answering the question "Now that At The Drive-In is out of the picture, who do you think is gonna take the major label jump, become indie rock?s Nirvana, and bust the whole scene into the mainstream?"
Joel Schalit (Punk Planet)
I don?t think that there will be an "independent" rock group that will graduate to the Billboard magazine mainstream anytime in the near future because there is no widespread cultural appreciation of that kind of music anymore. Teenagers don?t really listen to proto-bohemian rock music at this point in time because even the slightest allusion to countercultural motifs and fashion is meaningless to them, at least in terms of the way indie and punk rock has traditionally defined it.
That?s not to say that kids aren?t looking for something different, it?s just that the musical version of that idea is really dated. Kids can?t relate because it doesn?t have anything to do with what they?ve been trained to believe is countercultural, which is technology, not music. Hence the obsession over fetishes like music trading systems like Napster rather than specific rock bands like At the Drive-In and Nirvana.
I?m also personally suspicious of the need to figure out who is going be the next big thing to move out of the underground. Why do we need to even care about such things unless we have some kind of personal stake in the question? I?m not a business person. There are no abstract political considerations involved either, because good rock music has never and will never affect anything more than making mainstream culture more bearable. I think the more practical concern is whether market success is still possible such that consumers will be in a position of continuing to be able find music that they like in their local record store.
As far as I?m concerned, that?s the real subtext of the question you?re asking. My answer is yes, in the absence of any new fashionable market juggernauts, labels and distributors will continue to refine their strategies of retail placement and everyone will in one way or another be satisfied.
Travis Morrison (the Dismemberment Plan)
Um, I absolutely, positively have NO idea whatsoever. People love Death Cab for Cutie, so I'll say them!
Ezra Ace Caraeff (Slowdance Records)
Few acts in the esteemed genre of indieemogaragepunknoiseelectronic+essentials have more of an impact than one chubby Midwestern lad by the name of Har Mar Superstar. To those in the know, like myself, he is known as either "Har Mar Motherfuckin' Superstar" or just "The Mar." Regardless of what he's called, Har Mar Superstar is unquestionably the single most worthy artist capable of ripping the crown off the afro'd heads of fallen princes, At the Drive-In.
Coming from a musical family of much prestige, Har Mar had to grow up in the shadow of his older, and far more handsome, brother, Sean Na Na. Long before At the Drive-In bought their first cassingle of "Killing in the Name Of," Sean Na Na was everyone's pick to be the next "big thing" in indie rock. But all the hype and glowing Richard Meltzer reviews went straight to Sean Na Na's curiously large head and he started to sing almost exclusively about Unicorns and shit. Really. The critics foamed at the mouth in their crazed search for a backup break-through artist, when all the time he was right under their noses, trapped in poster-clad walls of his Midwestern home, dateless on prom night, with his only true friends Ronny, Ricky and Michael, also known as Bell Biv DeVoe. Har Mar's obsession with New Jack Swing was on parallel with John McEntire's obsession with Mingus, or Conor Oberst's obsession with Paxil. Whatever it was, Har Mar soon began developing sharp skills of his own, pounding out slick jams that are as smooth as Motown Philly and almost as sensual as fucking in your older brother's van.
Ever since Prince started shaving those weird patterns into his facial hair, the citizens of Minnesota decided it was time to elect a new "prince" of the Twin Cities music scene. The choice was fairly obvious; after all, not only is Har Mar a remarkable musician blessed an angelic voice that shines down on the snow-covered streets of St.Paul like a ray of blinding light from the heavens above, but the motherfucker wears a cape! Come on people -- a fucking cape! I believe the crowning ceremony of Har Mar as the new king of Minnesota Pop was attended by Governor Jesse "The Body" Ventura, mustached Husker Du drummer Grant Hart and that one deadlocked guy from Soul Asylum who used to hump Winona Ryder.
Sure, he kind of looks like "The Critic," or perhaps Woody Allen's Midwestern pudge-pot cousin, but the fact is that Har Mar Superstar is going to be the Next Big Thing. Bigger than Cedric's hair, bigger than Mark Kozalik's ego and way way bigger than Greg Dulli, who is just plain fat.
Dave Brown (Holiday Matinee, Muddle, Better Looking Records)
At least one of these five will make it on TRL in the next three years: Death Cab For Cutie, Jimmy Eat World, the And/Ors, the Faint, or the Jealous Sound.
Joan Hiller (Hopper PR, formerly Hyper PR)
The eternal question: who?ll take from the cookie jar next, and will it make them sick or not? There?s always a certain amount of (usually negative) compromise that takes place whenever art and commerce collide, as they invariably do. How much is your expression worth? How much will you take in return for it before the initial expression is changed, or in some way molded or compromised to fit the trade, or to optimize that return? There are a million ways to walk the line; to dance the dance of dealing-with-press-to-raise-awareness of something that is truly good, with the knowledge that a portion of the press is more focused on commodification of music than the music itself and the ideas behind it.
I?ve never seen a picture of myself in Spin or Alternative Press, but I make efforts to get other people seen. I?ve never been presented with the option of paying my bills through the music I make, but I work in hopes that what I do can help others do so if that?s what they may want to do in order to facilitate further rockmaking. I?ve never had Grand Royal shake the option of time in an all-expenses paid recording ranchero (the likes of which Steely Dan recorded "Aja" at) in my face. I don?t know exactly how I?d react, and I?m not so pretentious as to assume that I might know who the next lemming to jump the label train will be, or that the choices they make will be inherently good or bad for them and the art they produce. I just know that there?s a right way to handle things, and a way to handle things that will turn around and fuck you from behind; sometimes to your complete and utter surprise.
Mark Tesi (the Trans Megetti)
Could be anybody, ya know? The next band that has cool haircuts or Gold Mountain Entertainment behind them; that?d be my vote. And if it has anything to do with music ... hey, even better.
Sean Brooks (Minmae, Airborne Virus Records)
That's a tough one to answer because I was unaware that At The Drive-In had really blown things up. Did they blow things up because they got to do their little dance for Dave Letterman? I remember when I was in Thee Psychic Hearts (yes, it?s named after Thurston's Eulogy for all the Dead Rock Stars), we played a show with At The Drive-In at our old practice space, Union & Beech. And then going back even further I remember seeing them at the Velvet. I recall being surprised by their agility, and I'm not talking about the music. To see that little guy jump around was admittedly breathtaking. And when they played with us at Union & Beech, even though I expected the tripping of the light fantastic, I was still transfixed on the feet.
It reminds me of when I was ten years old and my mom had taken me to the doctor for an ear infection. I grew up in El Centro, which was predominantly Hispanic, and there was a doctor there who spoke English about as well as our current dictator, George W. Anyway, my mom told him I had an ear infection to which he responded "In the foots?" My mom didn't know whether to laugh hysterically or get us the hell out of there. I think she did both.
But getting back to Union & Beech. They were (not surprisingly) aloof. As if they had a greater meaning and purpose than playing with the likes of us. Perhaps it was the future Letterman appearance? I just remember watching them play and thinking it was a disastrous Fugazi rip-off. But who was I to say? I kindly kept my mouth shut and held my slack indie-rock stance like everyone else. But the dance, man, the dance. How they danced. You know that little dance you do if your pants are cut a little too high and you covet a secret desire to jerk angularly ala Joy Division. That was them. What style! Nothing unique but you could tell they had done their homework. They had studied hard on the do?s and don'ts of indie-rockdom. They really had nothing to say, they just danced!
Going back to when I first got into music, I remember being utterly floored by Bob Dylan and Dave Van Ronk. I played the coffee house circuit before I played the punk circuit. There was a lamer named Jewel Kilcher that used to come into the Inner Change where I used to play. She befriended me and we worked on Dylan covers together. I never thought she was any good, but look who became the fool? Little did I know there were legions of pathetic little teens waiting for their right of passage into the cult of Everyday Angels.
So to see At The Drive-In on MTV surprised me not. The band and artists and projects I like are far from ever being the next big thing or breaking into the mainstream. In fact, if any of them did, I would be deeply disappointed. Music should not be a get-rich scheme. It should be about being the next big thing. What if At The Drive-In had played fascist Bush's inaugural party? Think they would have done it? Is that much different than playing on the Dave Letterman show? Some of the bands I currently enjoy are Duster, Disco Inferno, the Cannanes, Huon and ... the Rolling Stones. So go figure. I guess I am a corporate slut. I guess I do like a band that'll play for Budweiser. That would be the Stones ... case you didn't know. But no matter what you think, no At The Drive-In song can ever encompass the beauty of track 7 on Duster's "Contemporary Movement" CD. It?s haunting. Just listening to the languorous drumming and subdued singing makes you want to dance. But not angularly. Actually, it makes you want to fuck. It makes you want to fucking fall in love or cry in the arms of your girlfriend, should you have one. It makes you want to feel the pain of everyone ... and then feel nothing. It drones and drops out. It?s fucking beautiful. More than any pseudo-politico Drive-In rant. Let it be known that my relationship to command is nil.
Ron Richards (Muddle)
Errortype:11. Because rock is gonna come back in a big way, and after the inane-ness of bands like Papa Roach and Staind, an intelligent, dignified rock outfit like ET:11 is going to be a breath of fresh air. Honorable Mention to: Rival Schools. After G.B., Quicksand (twice) and writing those C.I.V. songs, Walter's gotta make it sooner or later. Besides this stuff could crossover easily.
Joe Davis (the Pinehurst Kids)
Well, if we don?t get our chance first, and I honesty believe that we will -- and that sucks, ?cuz people are gonna think that?s arrogant. So, Alkaline Trio or, more likely, Jimmy Eat World. Because, DreamWorks will eventually have to break a band or they?re gonna go under. So if they start having anything going with Jimmy Eat World, they?re gonna cram it down everybody?s throats. Which I think they?re already doing.
AnnaMaria Stephens (Anti-Complacency.org)
Since I subscribe to the old Chinese maxim -- "Prediction is extremely difficult, especially if it involves the future" -- I turned to my friend Jules, who swears she's psychic.
AM: So, who will be the next indie act to "make it?"
J: Um, tell me what you think and I'll give you my vibe.
AM: Your "vibe?" Jeez. Well, I can definitely envision bands like the Dismemberment Plan and Q and not U breaking out of the indie circuit -- their music is so fresh and appealing. I dig the new Pleasure Forever (ex-VSS, Slaves). I'm also a fan of I am Spoonbender -- the sound is hypnotic and addictive, though maybe a bit complex for the "average" buyer at Sam Goody's.
J: I am Spoonbender! I like that one -- heh heh -- psychic humor!
AM: [rolls eyes] But that's just what I like right now ...
J: Hey, you know the deal. You can't predict who's gonna "make it." But you can spread the word, which is even better. The outcome completely depends on the now, you know?
AM: Totally. But Jules, no offense - you're a shitty psychic!
J: Oh yeah? You're about to spill your coffee! [Shoves AM] See, I'm a great psychic.
Kyle Rogers (Holiday Matinee)
Death Cab for Cutie, definitely. Ben is cute and Nick makes good stage faces, they will be big. Oh, and Chris is skinny, really skinny; that will help. Oh, and Michael has a killer 28 piece Pearl Export set, with signature congas.
Sean Agnew (R5 Productions)
Here are my dark horses : Denali (Richmond, VA) Members of Engine Down and Lazycaine. Kid-A/Portishead-styled music with the vocals to match. Only have played a few shows but already are a huge "buzz" band. Sold 100+ demos at a show they opened at, with only 300 people there. Already getting press in the entertainment weekly's of the cities they play in. Extremely tight live set, almost flawless. Extra bonus points: Very good looking band. I know it shouldn?t count, but it does and all the members have that "look." Hopefully people will look pass that and realize the talent. But it doesn?t hurt when you get to be on the cover of a ?zine/magazine.
Cannibal-Ox (NYC): On the cover of WIRE this month. You know the apocalypse is upon us when 35 year old white professional men are coming into the indie stores, buying futuristic underground, indie hip-hop.
Sigur-Ros (Iceland): The self proclaimed "band that will change the way the world thinks about music," seem to woo and impress everyone live. The dynamics and builds of Godspeed You Black Emperor (who they toured with in Europe), the dark mysterious stigma of Radiohead (again who they also toured with in Europe) and the vocal strength of Bjork. The band playing live brings out a string section and an old Icelandic opera singer for bonus points. Everyone was at the NYC show, Blonde Redhead, David Bowie, the editor of Rolling Stone, etc. I know they are the 3rd highest selling band in Philadelphia's largest indie store. Once the major label press machine gets behind them (they just signed in the US) This band could be unstoppable.
J.R. Nelson (Hit It Or Quit It)
Adam, after examining this question from a myriad of angles, I have decided that Nirvana was actually indie rock's Nirvana, if you look closely. Uh, that was too easy a quip. I'm not trying to be a snot here, Adam ... honest. I'll try again, even though I'm not sure what you are asking. Are you asking if a band "we" (the underground) can respect will ever top the charts again and who that band might be? Since I'm not sure, I'll try to answer all of the questions in my head right now by not answering any of the questions you asked. Ahem. You'll see.
Back to Nirvana for a second. An interesting case they were, no? They radiated something ... something ... something. Too bad Kurt Cobain gave me (and a few million or so others) a specific, basic feeling I could seemingly only get from him. Too bad I can't remember right now what that was exactly. Something mighty wicked, something smack between fun and sickness where our burdened true hearts too often live. They spoke my language and then they gave me a vegemite sandwich. Thanks, guys! Too bad they don't exist anymore, ain't it? Those Nirvana boys. I really miss their kind around these parts. They always were a special case. Looking back, I keep thinking that Nirvana was like a strike of lightning that flashed out of the sky and touched earth for a micro-second, burning our retinas so that we didn't really see them until the seconds after they was gone. Can something that potent strike twice?
Were Pearl Jam smart (or unethical) in using MTV and Lollapalooza to rabidly break their first record and turning right around and dumping videos and big tours (once they had an audience in the mazillions to buy their records and pay for those tix, o' course) because they couldn't abide the ethical quandary they presented? Of course, they KNOWINGLY fudged most the old indie/mainstream lines and made millions! Sheer genius that was pillaged by countless bands. Rage Against the Machine very nearly did the same thing. In fact, Eddie Vedder got to keep all of his cake and is still eating it, although his pieces keep getting smaller every year. Now all Pearl Jam has left to do is fade away. Nirvana rather famously burned out and became legends, which made them a far different animal from Pearl Jam. Of course now we can get a Pearl Jam anywhere. A dime a fucking dozen. Where do the Nirvanas really come from? Indie rock or somewhere in us?
Back to topic, which was the "next" Nirvana, not the old one that done came and left. Who will come busting out from the underground, whip the heads of the youth with righteous rage and set cities on flame with rock and roll? I think the whole point is dishearteningly moot right now. As far as the universe of the "individual listener" is concerned (as opposed to the business interests of labels or the aesthetic interests of artists, two subjects the ?zine world and other rock critics focus on), the underground and mainstream just aren't that different these days, when it comes to what listeners are looking for: a good groove and some self-pity. Mainstream and underground alike, that is what rock music is for. Even the celebration ?n? love songs are based on self-pity ... I mean, do you hear that brand new beat? Oooh, I love you, baby. Let's get it on! Look at those hip-huggers. Whoo! The singer sounds so happy. Am I really feeling this good? As good as he is? I'm not, am I? No. I'm dancing to this and smiling, but I feel kind of bad. Songs sing themselves, after all. Or as a poet much more succinctly said, "oh well, whatever, nevermind."
I'm not sure they ever really were that different, our old rival teams the underground and mainstream, despite what we want to think or have been thinking. Rockers get laid and rockers get paid, and we listen in to a little bit of the transaction. Or, they don't and we won't. Or they don't and we do anyway 'cause they rock regardless and that endears them to us. Whatever. You and me reading Insound WANT the mainstream and the underground to be different, so we make up differences at all hours and therefore keep our brains zooming ahead in the passing lane of the highway, instead of in the traffic jams where, if we look closely, At The Drive-In, Linkin Park, Sum 41, the Get Up Kids and the Strokes are riding in the backseat of a (very) moldy lemon right next to us, sharing secrets, smiles and jokes.
The kids that are watching MTV right now, even the ones who have no idea why they're looking there and what they're looking for outside of bouncing boobies and commercials for skin care products and blazing beats, those who come across the Get Up Kids and major-label punk and post-emo by accident, these kids are looking for the same things as the hipster hordes packing Brownie's and the Empty Bottle and Meow Meow and CMJ and Plea for Peace every night, working at college radio when they can and doing ?zines on the weekends. And these two worlds are colliding together a bit too often right now, meaning that the Cobain big bang is too recent, I think, and the time since "creation" has been too short. Lightning and big bangs! Sounds primordial, don't it? Like we're just starting on this road? Don't despair, friends. There is a Republican idiot in the White House, lots of rock bands are wearing eyeliner and playing keyboards, and the term "Star Wars sequel" ain't just referring to a movie anymore. Sound like any other decade you remember? Depends how old you are, I suppose, but I think you'll agree that we got a long time to go. So excuse me if I refrain from speculating on who or when, exactly, the next Nirvana might come.
Right now, we've got to keep our shit close to the fucking vest. We've got to wait for our Minor Threat and Replacements and our Husker Du and our Mission of Burma and our Butthole Surfers before another Nirvana comes along again. Or, maybe I'm wrong and rock bands will never ever pass this way again, and Nirvana next time will be a twenty-one year old kid from Brooklyn with two CD's, "Nevermind" and the Notorious B.I.G.'s "Ready To Die." Maybe Gang Starr made Nirvana obsolete when they were still around. Shit, I dunno. You probably already think Radiohead is the next Nirvana, and are tired of reading this senseless monkey babble. We're all wrong and we're all right anyway, because the underground has no group soul. Only all of us.
by: Adam Gnade (Insound - September 11, 2001)
Link To: http://www.insound.com/insoundoff/index.cfm?id=236&adreenter=1